By Pepper Parr
August 19th, 2022
BURLINGTON, ON
The Roseland Community Organization (RCO) plans to host an all-candidates debate at 7 PM on October 11, in the Roseland Room within the Port Nelson United Church.
In a comment from a member of the Roseland community saying “The current trend whereby candidates think they can duck all-candidate debates is, quite frankly, disappointing: and even worse, bad for our democracy.”
This citizen went on to say “At the federal and provincial levels voters at least have party platforms upon which to base their voting decisions; but at the local level, thankfully there are no party politics. If we are to make this local democracy work, then we need more debate, not less. And certainly, less electronic spin.
Councillor Shawna Stolte will have an opportunity to state her case in front of a fair crowd in October
“It is important that the Ward 4 Council and the Mayoral candidates know they will be invited to this October 11th event. We hope area residents and candidates mark this date in their calendars.
“Prior to this debate date, all candidates will receive the same 5 questions which will be prepared by RCO. Each candidate will be given 10 minutes to answer these questions.
“After these presentations, there will be a Q and A for the audience.
“The questions will require specific answers – for example, will you support or not support a request to have the Burlington Mayor delegated so-called strong Mayor powers.
For the first time since she was elected Mayor – Marianne Meed Ward will have to appear before citizens and answer their questions.
“Or, what is the total percentage of the cost-of living increases you will approve over the next four years?
“We are hoping this format is informative and will provide insights that are helpful in reaching a decision on where to cast a ballot. We hope this will introduce a new level of accountability to our electoral system.”
What the good people of Roseland are doing is good news. They are known for summoning senior city staff to an RCO meeting and asking tough questions – and they don’t put up with wishy washy answers.
As for introducing some accountability to the crop that was elected in 2018 – good luck on that.
We ask – why give the candidates the questions in advance ? Set out categories: Finance, Climate, Bylaw,are examples, and expect the candidates to be able to answer on the spot.
The event is a much needed occasion for voters to be able to learn just who is going to make the decisions for the next four years.
There’s a time and place for everything Mary. Disclosing one’s platform without the information to back it up because the City has removed information post Nominations opening is not a very smart move at this stage of the game and with five candidates running for office. According to the Specator when I ran for Mayor in 2014 it was held “Anne Marsden… she’s very smart, and is often right on target with her criticisms.” The Spectator described my platform as governance issues and transit services need improvement. Others as working for a vibrant downtown, accessibility for all, caring for your neighbor, audits to open up city hall files and more. Rick Goldring was a shoe in, in 2014 and the other candidate was held to have put on a dynamic campaign. I got second in that race, again without any donations and being ignored by many of the media in terms of interviews. My platform really has not changed just the same problems to solve, only much bigger.
Smart means politically smart enough not to accept criticism from someone you would never take advice from. You are the last person on earth I would take advice from in terms of political savvy, given the descriptors given to your comments by other members of the community. As far as I am aware, you have not got a single vote in an election to date. Right or Wrong? I will continue to make suggestions for fair and informative debates, given I am the most experienced candidate in terms of campaigns and debates in this election, I began in 1984. An election as we know can have disastrous results if fully informed votes are not cast. Those like Diefenbaker who get over their losses and keep on trying until people understand they are the best choice, as the DownTowners declared they understood for the first time, in the Gazette, are described as having pitbull tenacity. A much better characteristic than has been applied to the current Mayor by members of her former campaign team!
More of the same is just not a viable solution and my professional experience, working for an internationally respected corporation with their committees, Board and Audit Programme likely makes me the most experienced candidate in this election. If what I bring to city hall is not what is wanted by the majority, I have seven fast growing 3 -14 yrs. of age and very different grandchildren who I love to spend my time with. I can only offer my well referenced skills and experience to serve my community. Its up to the community to determine the best candidate. That’s democracy!
Mayoral Candidate Marsden I have not been asking you any platform related questions. My questions were specific to your support of Councilor Stolte breaking Council confidentiality and the City’s Code of Good Governence. Whilst I support Councilor Stolte’s aims for greater transparency her breaking the rules is not acceptable. The end never justifies the means.
You, Mayoral Candidate Marsden, vociferously supported the Councilor breaking confidentiality.
If you don’t like the rules seek to change them democraticly. Don’t just break them.
My questions to you are unrelated to your platform particularly as regarding issues such as development, increasing, maintaining or reducing property taxes and/or city services.
My questions for the fourth time of asking are:-
– As a mayoral candidate how will you act if elected should you be out voted and Council determines to keep a matter confidential?
– If elected will you abide by the City’s Code of Good Governance as it stands until such time as you might be successful in getting it changed?
Candidate Marsden please provide direct answers to those two questions.
Correction and apologies for error: The Mary Hill inaccuracy set out in her August 21, 2022 7:03 comment is “vociferously supported” not “vociferously stated” along with a couple of other minor changes. Our Reply sent late August 21, 2022 is not yet published and able to be corrected please substitute this for the previous comment. The corrected comment reads:
“Mary you are publishing statements and asking us to answer questions publicly in your Comments THAT INFER Anne and Dave Marsden taxpayers or Anne Marsden Mayoral Candidate have “vociferously supported” it is appropriate to break the City’s Code of Good Governance. Please withdraw these statements as they are simply not true!
“Mary you are publishing statements and asking us to answer questions publicly in your Comments THAT INFER Anne and Dave Marsden taxpayers or Anne Marsden Mayoral Candidate have “vociferously supported” it is appropriate to break the City’s Code of Good Governance. Please withdraw these statements as they are simply not true!
The issue we addressed is that until this matter gets an appropriate review in a Court of Law which Anne COULD not WOULD if elected test Council’s willingness to do that under section 274 of the Municipal Act no-one knows for sure if Shawna Stolte committed a wrongful act. That’s why we have judicial reviews and that is one reason why Section 274 of the Municipal Act has been put in place.
Judges never mind Integrity Commissioners make wrong decisions and they can be appealed and overturned that is a large part of a democratic process. We have both been part of a successful appeal of an order of a judge. We were simply stating Shawna Stolte did what she thought was right and at no time have we ever inferred that either one of us if elected would not abide by the Code of Conduct.
We have a list of issues that will be shared at the right time that we believe should be addressed under Section 274 that are of far more importance to the taxpayer than that of who is right and who is wrong in the Nisan, Galbraith and Stolte matter.
Anne and David Marsden
April 14, 2022 at 4:24 pm
Bruce you don’t know that Stolte broke the rules and neither do we.
JUDICIAL INVESTIGATION
Investigation by judge
274 (1) If a municipality so requests by resolution, a judge of the Superior Court of Justice shall,
(a) investigate any supposed breach of trust or other misconduct of a member of council, an employee of the municipality or a person having a contract with the municipality in relation to the duties or obligations of that person to the municipality;
(b) inquire into any matter connected with the good government of the municipality; or
(c) inquire into the conduct of any part of the public business of the municipality, including business conducted by a commission appointed by the council or elected by the electors. 2001, c. 25, s. 274 (1).
Application of Public Inquiries Act, 2009
(2) Section 33 of the Public Inquiries Act, 2009 applies to the investigation or inquiry by the judge. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 6, s. 72 (5).
Report
(3) The judge shall report the results of the investigation or inquiry to the council as soon as practicable. 2001, c. 25, s. 274 (3).
Anne, I totally agree with you that this election is definitely not like the last one. The residents who attended the debates had the hope that replacing members on council would result in positive changes in Burlington. Did these changes make the difference we wanted? I will leave it up to the residents to decide.
As for attending debates. I will NOT be attending any in person debates. It is my hope that those organizing these debates will also include them on a “zoom type” platform that will allow people to participate and ask questions from their homes. If the debate is videoed it could be turned into a Utube video that people can watch should they not be available on the given date.
Regardless of the lessening of Covid restrictions, we are still dealing with this and according to reports in the newspapers, etc. we could be in the throws of a major Covid wave in October.
Organizers definitely need a Plan B.
Penny, in terms of the well-being of candidates and electorate and as a pro bono health and safety advocate along with Dave, I understand completely your position on still dealing with COVID and the need to have a Plan B. Scientists are telling us Omicron is spreading because those with it can be completely ignorant of this fact. I also believe there should be at least one and probably two opportunities several weeks apart that is recorded and available on You Tube (perhaps recorded in the Council Chambers given it would allow for enough spread around the table for the candidates and properly separate them) for the Mayoral candidates to actually debate with each other at some point in this election with a moderator such as Steve Paikin and no audience.
It should have a format that does not allow for any moderator or media bias if such does exists (LOL). i.e. candidates to introduce themselves and their platform and then ask questions of any or all of the four other candidates based on their published platform and why they believe they can do the job. The person asking the question would then be given equal time to critique at least one of the responses. This demands thinking on your feet and would show who among the candidates is able to do that and, therefore, are capable of fitting the role and being more representative of the people and transparent than our scripted mayors to date.
Surely this would be a good format for local media to get behind i.e. Gazette, Spectator, Burlington Post and Bay Observer, local radio stations, Podcasters, CHCH etc. and help the community to establish the candidate they see as having the necessary skills to do the job they are applying for. Many believe the present incumbent has not demonstrated leadership skills required by our Mayor and CEO and, therefore, she needs to defend her position that she does have what it takes in the appropriate arena. Perhaps she will surprise us all and do just that given the chance. Or perhaps an unknown will surprise us all with his demonstrated skills to serve in this role.
Candidates could also sit around the table in alphabetical order that equalizes incumbent and new candidates which is exactly how they will appear on the ballot.
Jay is response to your comment, the Roseland Community Group is a group of homeowners, who show interest and take pride in their community. There is no reason why other communities cannot form the same type of organizations.
We are a group of residents in ward 5, that during the 2018 campaign invited each of the ward candidates plus the candidates for mayor, to meet with us to share their platforms. Those meetings went very well and we felt we could make an informed decision on election day. I would suggest the Alton community consider doing as we did in the past and hope to do again in the coming months.
Bonnie, I honestly don’t think a community group would make Alton a favourite of our mayor and council. I think we know $$ why $$ the Ro$eland community is a favourite!
Responding to the comment from Jay. Any group can hold a debate in order to hear the platforms of the ward candidates. We are residents of ward 5 and we are seriously considering hosting a debate. During the last municipal election in 2018, we invited each of the candidates, including those running for Mayor, to speak to our community group.
Roseland has a strong home owners organization, which is something any area of the city can have if enough residents are interested.
Roseland is the only neighbour that really counts with our current mayor and council, as far as I can tell. The rest of us are chopped liver.
I wonder if a place like Alton Village would ever rank a debate or meeting?
Go ahead and organize one. Nobody is stopping you from doing that.!
First off, let me say I am all for a debate. I actually think it should be mandatory for every election, and that the city should have an independent organization run the debate. The problem I have is, who is the Roseland Community Organization? Who are the members? Are any candidates” a member or affiliate with them? Did any of the members of the ROC help or donate to any of the candidates’ campaigns? If so, isn’t that a conflict of interest? and how do we know it will be fair and impartial. Even the venue is suspect, do any of the candidates belong to the church? Who is going to moderate the debate and come up with the questions? Hopefully it’s not Mr. Parr because we know he mentions Shawna in every article he writes. What experience does the ROC have in running a political debate? Hopefully we get some transparency on this before candidates commit.
Hi Michael, You have very valid points to make, particularly with regard to a moderator and those who design the questions which incumbents can have a real advantage having lived with the facts behind the questions over the past four years. I know my experience in 2014 as a candidate for Mayor at the Chamber of Commerce, was horrific. They built a podium for Goldring, Rusin and I. I use mobility devices due to a congenital significant disability and could not climb the stairs. A member and former board member of my church (we both have attended since the 80’s) who was a high ranking member of the Chamber of Commerce and looked as though he was part of the COC organizing team, was also a good friend of Goldring. The COC came up with the idea to make things accessible for me, which they legally have to do, but clearly did not meet human rights definition of accessible. Sit Goldring and Rusin at the Podium where they could be seen by everyone there and sit me at a table with the person from my church holding the microphone. Dave who is my legislated support person was furious and I almost had to put a gag on him as I did not want to create a scene with me at the centre of it with cameras and cellphones everywhere. My suggestion for a moderator based on my 25 years as a candidate at such debates is someone like Steve Paikin or CHCH or local radio personalities (not Cogeco) that have had no direct contact with the candidates and definitely not Mark Carr or any other former councillor. P.S. Goldring and Rusin had no objections to this arrangement!
I am confused in that article it states all candidates do that mean all wards or just ward 4.and why are councilors candidates debating mayoral candidates. is it not two different seats. Does this mean that the mayoral candidates have to have 6 debates one for each ward, are votes from others wads allowed to attend. If so how many people attended that ward debate added up with how many attended that mayoral debate is this spectators they expect to attend. what is the fire code capacity of the church room what if more people attend do we break fire code and let them in or turn away voters and have to do it again. It seems like the Roseland homeowners hasn’t truly thought this out and don’t have a lot of experience with a political debate. I mean the can’t even figure out how candidates answer questions and alphabetical order is not that fair i mean 1 person always has the first word and 1 person always has the last word.. I would suggest that they have a predetermined order to answer each question determined buy random draw now isn’t that fair.
Oh My Gosh. You certainly are confused.
Why be so negative. As Donald Sutherland’s character in Kelly’s Heroes “enough with the negative waves”.
Why do you think the Gazette report would be checking into the fire code requirements
The Mayor is a Councilor just like all 6 ward councilors, but it’s ward is the entire city. The same issues to be debated by the ward candidates are just as relevant to and should be debated by the mayoral candidates. This Roseland group has run a candidate debates before. It was well worth attending.
Thank you so much to the Roseland Community Organization for taking the time and effort to put together a Ward 4 Council and Mayoral Debate! The opportunity for voters to hear from their candidates and have the opportunity to ask questions is a critical part of the democratic process and I for one look very much forward to participating in this event. Thank you!
Me too Shawna, looking forward to chatting with you ahead of time. Last time we chatted to any extent was when Dave and I endorsed you in your run against Jack Dennison, a lot of water under the bridge since then. I have always enjoyed the Roseland debates. Wondered if there was any reason not to include Halton Chair other than time constraints as it is important to know what your Region candidates stand for. Last last election Gary Carr never attended one debate and even sent someone to read into the record what he had to say at a COC. Anne
In 2018 ECoB was responsible for holding debates in all wards as well as one for the Mayoral race. These proved to be very well attended, and resulted in 5 new councillors and mayor being elected.
I agree that only topics be given to the candidates in advance. Our reasoning was that if candidates were given the questions in advance they would concentrate only on that question and could have little knowledge of the entire subject. The other concern was that someone other than themselves had put together the “pat” answer they would be presenting. Thinking “on ones toes”,so to speak, gives residents a better idea of how they would perform in any given situation.
I am certain this group has realized that it is quite possible that another Covid 19 wave could be happening in October. Perhaps a “hybrid” meeting could be considered. By this, I mean that residents who would prefer to stay in their homes could be part of the debate through a live “zoom” type platform.
If the debate was recorded it could be turned into a Utube video which could be watched by people who were not available on the day of the debate ( especially since the mayoral candidates will be included). ECoB did this and it was very successful.
The last suggestion would be to have each candidate provide the group with a picture and a small bio that is put together and then become a handout to those in attendance. ECoB did this in 2018 when 11 candidates were running for election in Ward 1. The feedback was very positive. Doing this provided residents with a visual of who it is they were planning on voting for ( associating a face to the name).
I hope that community groups in other wards decide to hold debates , and ask the hard questions. One of the questions I would ask those running for re-election would be ” What have you done in the last 4 years to improve the lives of the residents in your ward/ city, and did you fulfil your campaign promises”? For those seeking to be elected “How do you feel your council representative /mayor faired and why and how do you think you could do more for your community”?
As someone said to me “we don’t want mushy answers, we want facts”. I totally agree.
I encourage residents from other wards to attend this debate and any other debates that might be happening. For too long, in my opinion, the wards work independently and decisions are made that are not necessarily best for Burlington as a whole.
In 2018 we wanted change and we got change. Was it the change we hoped for?
Only you can answer the question by voting for the people you think best represent you on council.
Penny, this is a much different election than last election. With the decision to put a new website up after Nominations opened there is a real dearth of information for non-incumbent candidates despite an excellent set of new Deputy Clerks since May, 2022. Further, the electorate and the city is not giving any reasons as to why this disastrous timing. Unless the electorate are able to cast a fully informed vote by researching as they have a right to using all the files that were present up until nominations opened (including financial reports) this is a very serious issue that clearly benefits incumbents along with the donation rebate they approved. It has caused me, in particular, huge issues in terms of my planned two page election web-site on marsdens.ca as many files that were available from 2009 on are gone and likely will never come back. I am having to change my whole planned strategy for my “no donations” campaign where social media plays a very important part given I cannot go door to door. Looking forward to seeing you at the debates. Anne
Candidate Marsden has the time and inclination to make three comments to this single article under her solo byline. And yet she still does not have the inclination to respond to questions put to her asking how she would act in certain situations if elected mayor.
She continues to ignore the questions whilst touting transparency and accountability. Showing a complete lack of transparency and no accountability.
McKennaesque
There’s a time and place for everything Mary. Disclosing one’s platform without the information to back it up because the City has removed information post Nominations opening is not a very smart move at this stage of the game and with five candidates running for office. According to the Specator when I ran for Mayor in 2014 it was held “Anne Marsden… she’s very smart, and is often right on target with her criticisms.” The Spectator described my platform as governance issues and transit services need improvement. Others as working for a vibrant downtown, accessibility for all, caring for your neighbor, audits to open up city hall files and more. Rick Goldring was a shoe in, in 2014 and the other candidate was held to have put on a dynamic campaign. I got second in that race, again without any donations and being ignored by many of the media in terms of interviews.
Smart means politically smart enough not to accept criticism from someone you would never take advice from. You are the last person on earth I would take advice from in terms of political savvy, given the descriptors given to your comments by other members of the community. As far as I am aware, you have not got a single vote in an election to date. Right or Wrong?
I will continue to make suggestions for fair and informative debates, given I am the most experienced candidate in terms of campaigns and debates in this election, I began in 1984. An election as we know can have disastrous results if fully informed votes are not cast. Those like Diefenbaker who get over their losses and keep on trying until people understand they are the best choice, as the DownTowners declared in the Gazette, are described as having pitbull tenacity. A much better characteristic than has been applied to the current Mayor by members of her former campaign team! More of the same is just not a viable solution and my professional experience, working for an internationally respected corporation with their committees, Board and Audit Programme likely makes me the most experienced candidate in this election. If what I bring to city hall is not what is wanted by the majority, I have seven fast growing 3 -14 yrs. of age and very different grandchildren who I love to spend my time with. I can only offer my well referenced skills and experience to serve my community.