By Gazette Staff

September 7^th, 2025

BURLINGTON, ON

Edited for clarity and condensed for length

Finally, something from Sound of Music (SoM) on where they are, what they are up against and what they are trying to do.

Stay alive would be the best way to put it.

Joel Macleod

Joel Macleod was in conversation with Brent Kinnaird, the Executive Director of the festival on a podcast

MacLeod (JK) asked: Is there a chance the festival could transforms into a paid event to offset those costs? Or is the determination we are keeping it free, come hell or high water?  What is going to happen? What are the possibilities down the road?

Brent Kinnaird  (BK) “So first and foremost, the goal is to keep it free, absolutely.  The reality is that it may not be possible. Could there be a paid component, or could it turn into a ticketed or paid event? That’s one of the things that we’re looking at –  absolutely –  yes.

“Do we alter how we present it in some way? And that means, you know, does it stay as a four-day event, or do we go from three stages down to two or on and on and on.  Anything is on the table right now is the honest answer, and is the reality, you know, but ultimately, what we would love is to keep this festival free in its current format, because that’s where the magic has been, and that’s where the biggest impact has been.”

MacLeod calls it an institution.

Brent Kinnaird, the Executive Director Sound of Music

BK:  “Thank you. for calling The Sound of Music an institution. Because, you know, it really is.

“The Sound of Music Festival is Canada’s largest free music festival since 1980  – 45 years in the city of Burlington.    We basically build a small city within the city, in Spencer Smith park for a week, and we preside over that city. And how do we preside over it? We have music, we have midway rides, we have vendors, we have food trucks, we have activities for the kids. We have sampling activations and, oh yeah, by the way, there’s some pretty good music too. So it is, it’s a beast. It’s a labor of love. You can’t imagine it unless you’ve been to it.

“Unfortunately, the reason we’re having this conversation, is the festival is in dire straits. And I’m wondering if you can maybe elaborate a bit on that, because this isn’t a new this is really a new a new state of affairs. This kind of has been coming for a while, if I’m not mistaken.

BK:  This will come as no surprise to anyone  – to continue to sustain an event of our size and scale and continue to offer it for free, which is absolutely the mandate.  This is, a barrier free event.. This is families. This is everyone is welcome to come out and enjoy and and you know, there should be no barrier to enjoying a community event, enjoying live music, enjoying an experience like this with your with your family.

“We have incredible support from all three levels of government. You know, the piece that we’re missing is this: it is getting increasingly more expensive every year.

“Government grant funding is on the decline.  Sponsorship sales are becoming increasingly more challenging. There’s a lot of competition from other events.  We have a couple of great beer gardens. We have a VIP area that does pretty well.  Unfortunately it is not enough.  The reality of the situation is the sound of music costs in excess of a million dollars to put on every year, and finding the revenues to balance that out has been a challenge that is, is not new.”

BK: “ But we continue to make it do and make it work every year, but we’re reaching that breaking point, and that breaking point to sustain what we do on the size and scale that we do it and keep it free and accessible for everyone is now, frankly, a near impossibility.”

The Arkells: Appeared at Sound of Music when they were just beginning.

JK: “I can remember the attractions that you’re bringing into the band, so that you’re bringing in. I remember seeing like the Arkells just before they kind of rested and became the Arkells. But I remember seeing them and, you know, the whole town boys, finger 11 will come back, and they’ll play every now and again, like you’re not, you’re not getting Nick No Name acts like, these are these, are these are real acts. These are artists.”

“How do you do it? How do you scope out those acts, kind of on the cusp of greatness, reach out to them and then, because I figured they’re not going to play for free, they’re not going to, you know, they’re not, no matter how charming you might be.”

BK:  A very big part of the mandate of sound and music is promoting local and emerging artists and providing a stage the size and scale of ours; providing a professional production and stage crew, and taking a band who’s here and ready for their career to take the next step. And we help them do that.  I want to underline, we help them. We’re not responsible for, you know, the Arkells, being, the sensation that they are, or finger 11, or Walk off the Earth. We’ve played a part in that. We have had a role to play in propelling artists to the next level of their career, and we continue to do that with our Battle of the Bands competition, our local stage with our partner, our current presenting sponsor is the Burlington Performing Arts Center. But back to your overall question about, you know, how we go about this? There’s some interesting little nuances in in the business.

“There’s terminology, you know, use, like routing and radiuses and other clauses and that sort of thing. And what all of this means is, you know, it’s a negotiation, what bands are available, what bands are touring, what bands might be routing, coming, you know, through the area in southern Ontario, maybe playing a show in Oshawa or Toronto or up in London. And, you know, is there an opportunity to stitch some things together and have them make one of their stops along the way at sound and music? So we start by sort of looking, you know, at who’s out there, who might be on the road, who might be putting a tour together. Maybe there are some dates in our area that have already been announced, and is there an opportunity to get them to make a stop here we also look at, you know, making sure that we continue to diversify the lineup in genre and in every other way, and so we sort of start with headliners.

Here’s our wish list, here’s who we’d love to get, here’s who’s available and is a real possibility. And once we get those headliners locked in, then we start to build the lineup, you know, down from there. And we love the theme nights too. You know, having some retro 80s stuff is super fun. Having classic rock, of course, you know, great stuff that the 90s, alt, some country in there as well.”

“What else responsibly should we be looking at  – what’s important, to make sure that there’s something for everyone? So, you know, jazz and blues and roots and folk. You know, we haven’t done a lot of those genres, but we’re slowly working our way into rounding out the lineup with, some more of that, so long winded answer, I apologize, but you know, it really, really does start with kind of who’s a good fit, who’s available, right? Who do we think? And then, you know, the pieces start to come together. And about how far in advance are you doing this, live, this leg work.

“We’ll start, usually in September, October, with some initial conversations around, you know, what our vision is, and start doing some of that research, you know, on some of the things that I mentioned. And then usually by around Christmas time, we’ve got some early pieces. And usually the top end of the lineup is starting to take shape from there.”

JK:  “What’s the state of the festival right now? Then, as you’re seeing it coming off the most recent one? Well, you know, I go from smiling and talking about happy stuff and here, you know, here comes the doom and gloom.

BK: “You know, the reality is, it’s been a bit of a slow burn over the last few years, with resources starting to to dwindle a little at a time, and up against, you know, post covid era and the rising costs of of everything. This is not a new problem. It’s been something that we’ve seen coming. It’s been something that we’ve tried to stave off, you know, as best as we could over the last, you know, few years. But the reality is, you know, I, I hate to, you know, push the dramatic, but, you know, it’s, it’s the it’s the reality too, and that is, it is entirely possible that we may well have seen the last sound of music this past June. We are in a position, you know, right now today, where, unless we have an injection of support, it is very sadly, probably the end.”

“You know, most people who know know me associated with sound music know that. You know, it’s not just a job for me. It’s, it’s a it’s a passion. I love it more than anything, and it gets me very emotional because of that. I’m a crier. Joel, just so, you know, I might cry at some point in this space.

JK:  I think there’s a there’s a sense of family, there’s a sense of purpose and determination to like, you know, this year has to outdo last year’s festival. And it was kind of refreshing to see me. You know, there’s a lot of cynicism out in the world. It was kind of nice to see a group of people that just know, I just want to have a party.

She knows why she is there!

In the press release that you sent out, you had mentioned, you know, the dwindling government funds coming in, both at the Ontario and federal levels. And I just want to talk with that because, I mean, I’ll try to start a pop but I did notice the notice goes out, and there seems to be a quick distancing on a part of the city. And I know at the federal level, I haven’t heard anything at the provincial level, just to say, Oh, well, we know we’re giving as much as we can. And that I was always puzzled by it says, How well, how much of the cuts back from from public arts grants and festival grants would be impacting into this decision to where we are now.

BK: Look, is it a factor.  The fact of the matter is, government grant funding is on the decline. That is, that is an indisputable fact. It is happening. We are not the only event or festival. Others are echoing the same thing. So anyone who tells you that government grant funding for arts and culture and events like ours isn’t going down. They’re not telling the truth. That’s a fact.

We also know that we have a responsibility to sustain ourselves, and we have to find alternate sources of funding. And you know, none of this is saying a single disparaging word about any level of government that that has funded us and continues to fund us. That’s not what this conversation is about. That’s not what our press release was about. Never once did we say that we were not appreciative of the support that we’ve had. What we’re saying is the reality in today’s world of doing what we do, it’s not possible to do it at the current levels that we are being funded. It simply takes more it’s more expensive to run it than what it was last year and the year before and so on and so forth.

They have been amazing partners. They have supported us in many, many ways, and we have always been grateful for that. What we are saying is we’re at a place in time now, finally, where the tree limb is is cracked and it’s almost broken.

The levels of funding that we receive from all three levels of government covers a decent amount of our budget, but we need to find more resources and more funding. And we know if the government is maxed at, this is what they’re able to provide, or these are the funds that are out there, obviously there has to be caps, and, you know, ceilings on it. We all, we all get that. If that’s the case, where do we find the other resources that we need. We need to tell our story, and the story is our partners, our funders, our government agencies, all wonderful, but you put all of that together, it still is not enough to be up to be able to present the festival that we present, and everyone has has come to know and love. So we need to find more corporate sponsors. We need to find donors in the community that you know, believe in city building and believe in the arts and believe in tourism and putting Burlington on the map.

We have, we have a very strong story to tell of our economic impact. We bring visitors into the city. They spend money in hotels and B and B’s and restaurants and retail and on and on. So there’s, there’s absolute economic uplift and impact in the city that is significant from sound and music. And we have the data to show that we introduce people to the city visitors for the first time, we incentivize them to come back. So, you know, we’re helping the City of Burlington to be prosperous and be a city that people look to and want to come to, we absolutely make a positive contribution to that. And so what we’re saying is we need to find some additional resources and partners and support to help us continue to do what we’ve done, which is put on a great party.

JK:   What is it that you’re asking of them? What is your offer on the table? So to speak to them, to say, Well, what did they get out of, you know, signing a big check over to you guys for next year’s festival. Yeah. So a great question.

BK: You know, we’ve never been a, you know, write us a check. We’ll slap your logo on a screen, and, you know, we’re done. We’ll call it a day. This is about building relationships. This is about cultivating partnerships that bring mutual value. So what we’re asking is people that believe in community, people that have a passion for music and for the arts, people that want to support artists, people that understand the value of bringing people together in an event like this, the power of music, the power of, you know, a community based event. As big as we are, we’re still, you know, a little community-based thing at heart. That’s what we are. And so, you know, all of those intangibles, you know, we want to kind of pull on the hearts and minds of folks and say, Yeah, this is important. We can’t lose this. This can’t die for all of that, all of those reasons, but you know, from a pure sponsor relationship perspective, you know what we can offer is incredible name recognition.

How do you monetize crowds like this?

We can offer the respect of this community people have come to know and love and respect sound and music. So do you want to be synonymous with something that has a great reputation, that has a storied history, that you know, brings people together, and if you want to, you know, talk just pure economics and dollars and cents, we can, we can put you as a sponsor, as a partner, in front of a huge audience, which is an opportunity that, if your goal is to build business. We have an audience for you that is probably bigger than any other audience you can find.

JK: Well, I do want to touch upon that because, you know, each year it seems to be numbers get to get put out after the event. You know, we brought in so many people.

What’s the running average that you would say it’s how many hundreds of 1000s of people you bring into the downtown core of Burlington for four days on Father’s Day weekend?

BK: “Our estimate, and we have, you know, some scientific data to back this up, not the least of which, we do some drone flying, and we can take pictures of the crowd and run it through a software program, and it basically estimates crowd size at a moment in time.

The crowds are there. Asking them to pay a fee of $5. for the weekend. 5 x 250,00 people – do the math!

“With that and some other tools, we estimate over the last three years, kind of the post covid festival years, something in the neighborhood of about 400,000 visits.  I want to emphasize visits. It’s not 400,000 people, because you may have the same people that are coming back multiple days, maybe all four days so, but 400,000 visits.

“How does that translate? Well, this this past year, Saturday night, we had Big Wreck as a headliner on the main stage, and our crowd estimates are between 12 and 15,000 people just watching Big Wreck.  That doesn’t include the West stage. Doesn’t include the people in the Midway – just Bih Wreeck on the Main stage –  12 to 15,000 people.

“We estimate that at the height of the festival, Friday, Saturday are the two, the two biggest days attendance wise, that when we have a jam packed Park, there’s, you know, something in the neighborhood of, at any one time, 50,000 people in the park. So, you know, if you want your brand to be in front of an audience, that is an audience that, you know, there’s a segment that’s, you know, reasonably affluent. There’s a lot of families, a lot of, you know, families with young children. The demographic targets that brands and companies are trying to reach –  we have it. In the course of four days, you can be in front of 10s of 1000s of people, not to mention you’d have the PR credentials of being the savior of the SoM festival.”

BK: “I had someone pitching me with this idea. How would you like to contribute? X, and you will be known as you know, the company, or one of a handful of companies that saved a 45 year tradition.”

JM:    My mind always goes back to the to the Arkells. The only reason why is, I remember hearing their album, kind of the first album on the radio a bit notice, just playing other the articles are playing out there.  I’ll go down check him out, right? It’s a free concert. I’m not gonna I don’t lose anything. And like, the one or two songs I heard, and I come down, and I’m standing in the back just, you know, one of those 400,000 heads in the crowd, and I’m blown away, like these guys are put on a show. Before that they were doing like, clubs and and concert venues; they just, they blew me away. It was one of those things, like, I became a fan in that moment, like, I’m sitting there watching the show, and I was like, Okay, I’m on the bandwagon. Now I’m a fan, and I have been a fan ever since I am.

“That’s the kind of what you have a chance to salvage.”

Hamilton Super Crawl

Hamilton Super Crawl is similar in a way. It’s barrier free access to music on artists, you know, all weekend long. A different focus, a little bit different genres. And, you know, not necessarily the size and scale that we are from a concert perspective. The event has lots of different pieces, but, you know they’re, they’re kind of in spirit. You know they’re, they’re not, you know, all that unlike us in that way. But that aside, I think you’re right. If you talk about a, Pure Music Festival in the province of Ontario, there’s nothing like us, you know, you’ve got a blues Fest in Ottawa, which is much, much bigger than we are. And you know, they’re getting, you know, a list of headline artists, you know, Foo Fighters and Def Leppard and Motley Crue and you know, bands that are, you know, they’re not in the same, you know, level that we are. But you know, it’s also a paid event.

BK: ‘There’s some other great festivals around the province, Rock the Park in London, the River Fest and Elora. Great music festivals, great people.  But there’s something about the spirit and the vibe of sound and music that I, you know, bias, yes, but I don’t, I don’t really think that there’s anything like it, and certainly not the history and the longevity that that we have.

“The Arkells played very early in their career at Sound and Music. And this is the same kind of kind of thing, you know, that we’re doing we’ve done with some of these local bands we mentioned.”

BK: “Fast forward to this year. We did a Battle of the Bands competition. We’ve done that for several years. We had over 160 bands from Southern Ontario apply for for battle the bands. What does that tell you about the music scene in Ontario? It’s incredible, right?

Black Paint, from Ajax.

“The winner of the Battle of the Bands competition this year, got a spot on the Main stage at the festival on Saturday afternoon to open up the festival. So you talk about when you saw the Arkells then and where they are now. This incredible band, a trio. They’re called Black Paint, from Ajax. They win the battle of the bands, great guys, super duper unbelievable musicians. They’re actually playing in Hamilton. In a couple days, these guys arrive to load in.

Big Wreck

Big Wreck was headlining the show that night. These three young dudes from Black Paint who play, you know, bars around Toronto and Southern Ontario. They walk up on the main stage to load up their gear and get ready to play their show. And I can see in their eyes, they’re like, whoa. Like, this is big and for me, love Big Wreck,  love all the bands we’ve had play. That’s the moment for me; this is why we do what we do.

JK: “I know what you’re talking about.”